Talk:Zelkova

An interesting note
In the Fidchell's prophecy, part of it states that Helba, who raised an army, will meet with the king of light to battle the dark giant. This probably refers to Zelkova, who sent out e-mails to all of The World's players requesting their help against Cubia. This seems to suggest that he's somehow connected with Helba if they're not the same person. Definitely not proof of anything, but I hadn't seen it mentioned yet, so I thought I'd note it.
 * Then who is the King of Light supposed to be? If that's true, then it can be equally true that Lios is playing behind one of the Epitaph Users. --Viscosity 04:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh? It doesn't say any of that... - Kuukai2 05:31, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yata would be a possibility for that theory if he weren't actually the player behind Wiseman, XD. ~ Ichida
 * Again, what are we even talking about? It says nothing about the King of Light or Queen of Dark. - Kuukai2 06:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed, Kuukai. There is nothing about that in the prophecy. The person is probably confusing it with the scene of Aina reading the Epitaph of Twilight. Kulaguy 13:34, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Source?
I'm one to ask but, source? - Kuukai2 17:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Ask Sparda, he's the one who changed it. But since Yowkow was changed to Alkaid it makes sense this would be changed too. --CRtwenty 17:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, I was hoping he'd respond. We shouldn't change anything until we have good reason to believe it's actually changed, though. There are multiple translations for some names (including this one), and Sakaki wasn't changed so we know this doesn't follow logic... - Kuukai2 18:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, it is Zelkova. I just watched the opening scene of the first game (up at .hackers.) Lots of stuff to edit in now...^^>,> -Amaethon

I thought Zelkova was a Girl?--Kite X 21:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The official Japanese website says "he". - Kuukai2 22:08, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Zelkova's PC is male, but we have no idea about his rl self. --CRtwenty 19:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Zelkova's Horns
Are they really that rare? There's several PCs that run around in Town that have horns too. --Viscosity 20:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but none of them have horns like Zelkova. His are different than the types usually available to players. --CRtwenty 21:36, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I would imagine so, considering I do not recall seeing any other human-type PCs with horns running around.--Twilight Duality 16:20, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe the PC named 1/2 has horns too, but you're right CR, her horns are a lot different than Zelkova's. --Viscosity 16:41, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Then again, Alkaid's PC is normal, for example, and yet no other Root Town PCs look like her. Enzeru 11:42, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Vol 3 Spoiler
Should this be included now and if so where should it go? Personally I think we should get some Volume 2 info for Zelkova up before you spoil Volume 3.--Ellimist 04:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we gave up on avoiding spoilers a long time ago.Rpg 04:25, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just read that spoiler and already I'm pissed off. The whole volume 2 Alkaid thing and Tri-Edge thing being spoiled was bad enough, but now another character's story has been ruined for me. I want to have at least a FEW plot twists come without me already knowing about them :/ Wasn't this supposed to be about the US release of .hack anyway? Stuff like Analysis or the new mangas that have no plan of being released over here are one thing. But we know we'll get volume 3 eventually, so couldn't we hold off on spoilers for a bit? --CRtwenty 04:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * But as a Wiki, any information that's available needs to be included for the sake of completeness. Don't like it? Don't visit the wiki the day after Volume 3 is released. Common sense.--AuraTwilight 04:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * No. Common sense dictates you don't spoil something from a game that won't be released in the US for, I assume, about a year. This is an English Wiki and the things we add from the Japanese version are usually just common sense things, things that won't be released in the US, or thing that'll be revealed very soon in the US. "TEH OTER CHARCTR PAGES HAVE TEH VOL3 SPOILARZ 2!!11!!" So what? We're not the ones editing that. Most of the time it's random crap we don't want on there in the first place, but we don't have the time to go editing every single piece of crap out of every single page. If you want every single piece of info available to be included for completeness sake, why don't you go around adding more spoilers? If you wanna actually make a postive contribute to the Wiki, make a detailed summary about Zelkova's background. It's like going to Dumbledore's page the night before Half-Blooded Prince is released and posting "Snape kills Dumbledore." Yeah, that's true, but that's not something worth adding. Rather than just posting that, post a detailed explanation why and how Snape kills Dumbledore. All I see from this contribution, is an idiot going "LAWLZ I NO SUMTHIN U DONT AND NOW IM SMARTER BCUZ I NEW IT B4 U!!" Ugh... this is why I didn't want dothackers here. Kulaguy 04:16, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
 * True, but having volume 3 stuff there when there's isn't even any volume 2 stuff is kind of silly. It'd be like if Kite's description read. "Kite is a character who gained the powers of the Twilight Bracelet from Aura. His best friend Orca fell into a coma, but after he defeated Corbenik in volume 4 he came back. The End". Sure the information is correct, but without the complete picture it's rather worthless. --CRtwenty 04:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Zelkova's offline info is revealed when you send him a lot of the greeting cards. He drops more and more hints and then it's just common sense what he means.

Well then have someone add Volume 2 information then. But it's not like information is uploaded in fragments in almost half the pages anyway. Haseo's page is a good example. Go whine about incomplete pictures over there.--AuraTwilight 04:40, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem is the HoL users haven't spoiled, LOL imagine that!? Volume 2 for themselves so we can't add any Volume 2 spoilers. Until someone who has played Vol 2 or know what happens we can't get the info on it. Plus it's not really right to only post ONE thing about Volume 3 because it's a huge spoiler. If Vol 3 info is going to be uploaded it should be more then just the big spoiler because it's a big spoiler.--Ellimist 04:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think most of the Vol.2 and 3 story is up here, it just needs to be spread around. I'm not big on typing the same thing over and over again from different perspectives, but I'll work on that. Yes, this is an English wiki, but nowhere does it mention America. Locale is irrelvant (aside from official English-language names/translations), if it's .hack info it belongs on this thing. There are spoiler warnings where spoilers lie, albeit that usually blocks off the entire page. It was probably better before we consolidated everything into "GU Games" in the History section, not my idea though... Also, I do it over a shorter timeframe, but if you're not an idiot, you can avoid spoilers on this site. I still have no pretty much no idea what happens past where I am in the game, though I know we have information about that up... - Kuukai2 22:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Zelkova's Helba because their personalities are too different.--Kite X 08:57, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * People can have different personalities when they are playing as different people or when talking to different people. Take me for instance, when I reply to you I generally act rude because most of your posts contribute nothing relevant to the topic or your just spamming random pages, when I'm talking to others like CR,I'm much nicer as I know and respect them. Just because someone acts a certain way does not mean that's the only way they can act.--Ellimist 22:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It's called "roleplaying".--Shinsou Wotan 22:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

shake my head and wonder how you can continually act like such an indi
 * Wonders how you are talking in the third person and how in God's name you misspelled "idiot," "indi."--Ellimist 22:25, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

When did they say Helba was master of Net Slum?--Kite X 13:43, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it was in the first four games sometime; they referred to Helba as the "Master of Net Slum", if I remember correctly. EmiHinata 22:37, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

In Volume 2 eng vers, Pi said Zelkova liked Haseo and acted in a way that seemed feminine. Enzeru
 * The first part, I remember. The second part, I don't. Do you have a picture of that?--SicInfit 23:04, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Where does it exactly say that Helba was the master of Net Slum?--Cubia X 16:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * She's called that several times, I know Wiseman calls her that in Legend of the Twilight. --CRtwenty 20:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

So that's his only possible connection to Helba that we know of right?--Cubia X 01:30, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
 * From what I've seen myself, yes.--SicInfit 03:55, 19 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Many people think, my self included, that Zelkova could be either, Helba's Son, OR Helba could've passed her knowledge to Zelkova, such as a apprentice teacher thing. However if you guys are getting into a squabble about spoilers and what not for the sake of something to be complete, since Wiki is an ecylopedia which you'd want to be as complete as possible with every deatal, or again as much as possible why not put spoilers? you should because eventually someone will find out weather spoiled or not. Now if you're going to get mad at reading soemthing that you took the freewill upon to go foward on and read it's at you rown risk, for the sake of another argument then how about put spoiler warnings like most people, sites, ect who do not want to spoil certain things? simple enough, those of you get completness and those of you get warnings not to read the spoilers. --63.215.26.142 08:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC) ---(Noaru Hikari)
 * Since when are we afraid of spoilers? This site is full of spoilers, we had the Ovan/Tri-Edge thing posted here months before volume 2 was released. Same with Alkaid becoming a lost one. What we don't like, is false or unverified information such as the Zelkova/Helba theory. This is a website for facts, not theories. --CRtwenty 15:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

A Bit of Evidence
While talking to the NPC Nuada in volume 3, I ran across a bit of odd information that supports Zelkova being Helba. Speaking to him the first time has no evidence to support this, the 2nd and 3rd times do however. Neuda states the following while talking to him


 * 2nd Time:
 * Oh yeah, the "Paradise" I told you about the other day. I have another rumor about it. In the old days, you needed approval from the "Queen" (Which would be Helba) to enter "Paradise". However, the "Queen" disappeared along with "R:1". What do you think happened to the "Queen"?


 * 3rd Time:
 * Rumor says that the "Queen" is now a "King" who is over looking "Paradise". A "Queen" becomes "King"... Do you get this metaphor?

My opinion is that Zelkova is Helba which is supported in the 3rd statement and hinted at lightly in the 2nd. Tsukuyomi 15:41, 8 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Why is it so hard to believe that Helba just quit and/or passed down the throne to someone else? And please get exact quotes without inserting your comments about it. Find better proof because the ones you presented can be interpreted differently. Kulaguy 00:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with Kulaguy. You can interpret the 3rd statement as the fact that Paradise's leader is not a Queen, but a King now -- meaning that the person acting as Leader may not necessarily be the same. This may or may not be substantiated by the 2nd statement where the Queen is said to have disappeared with R:1. --Viscosity 18:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Zelkova is Jun Bansyoya?
I have noticed that when Zelkova talks with Pi in GU, he talks in a different tone. He also had Pi's cell phone number, and Pi said that she feels something familiar about Zelkova. If this were true, it would explain why he could hack The World so easily because he was a CC corp admin. He would also know about the Avatars, the Phases, and Cubia. I think that Jun may indeed be Zelkova. This would also support Helba being Zelkova. Please give me feedback about what you think. User:Heartattack ryozo 8:40 15 September 2008
 * You lost me when you said that Helba might be involved, but otherwise it's a solid theory, and one I haven't considered before, so good job! However, we also know that entities in Za Warudo have reflected themselves as something precious to a person before, such as Endrance seeing his Lost Weapon as Mia, Bo's as Sakura, Pi's as Jun, etc., and given that Zelkova reminds Kaede of her dead son, and that it's implied that Zelkova is an AI, perhaps he's an artificial intelligence that "mirrors" the fondest ideals of people's hearts, which was how he was able to form such a massive pacifist guild so easily. It's especially probable since all Vagrant AI's we've seen devote themselves to examining a specific aspect of the human mind. Perhaps Zelkova's is fondness, love, happiness, or family. --AuraTwilight 21:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, I am not trying to support Helba = Zelkova in my theory, but I am just saying that it is a posibility. What do you think about why Zelkova likes Haseo? User:Heartattack ryozo 17:57, 15 September 2008
 * Same reason everyone else does; He's a good, admirable young man. AuraTwilight 17:22, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I like your way of thinking AuraTwilight -_^
 * "Same reason everyone else does; He's a good, admirable young man." No offense, but I don't think you wanna tell him that when he is The Terror of Death who barely likes anyone. And how do we know Zelkova liked him, just because he acts all friendly towards Haseo? According to the earlier opinion of the whole "Zelkova mind aspect" theory, he could resemble someone Haseo cares about. Just a thought. Enzeru 11:50, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I think Zelkova is human, and if not the best dang AI there ever was. (Zelkova beat Aura hands down) In Redemption if you take Zelkova to Breg Epona he wonders if they would ever sell a minuature of the city. Though he could just be saying that because he's curious it makes me wonder why he would bother if he was unable to purchase it. Also, if you take him to Mac Anu he states remembering being a newbie in the city. If he had to start the game like everyOne else isn't more likey that he was just a normal player? --Outlaw630 17:57, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, Enzeru, it's not that Haseo likes Zelkova that was proposed, but someone saying Zelkova liked Haseo. Regardless, Zelkova is just a friendly guy in general, especially since Haseo's an Epitaph User who's key to the infrastructure and safe existence of Za Warudo, keeping on good terms with him is the wise thing to do. To Outlaw, let's analyze these points from the "Zelkova AI" perspective. He wouldn't technically beat Aura, since all data Vagrant AI's collect is funneled into Aura, who is superior to humanity anyway, and if he was a Vagrant AI, then Zelkova isn't a "complete" humanoid intelligence. He can put on a very good act, like Mia, but he could lack something important, such as the ability to feel hatred or the ability to grow up. Something like that. And besides, the AIDA have proven that AI's can make constructs of real-world objects. Assuming he's not talking about an in-game miniature as virtual furniture, he could always make one based on a real model with his skills. As for "newbie", well, Rumor would like to have a word with you. Everyone has to start life at some point. And of course, that's all assuming Zelkova isn't lying right out of his ass because he doesn't want Haseo to suspect that he has no real-world existence. AuraTwilight 19:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and considering he might be a supplementary PC (like Naobi and Nala are to Yata), is there an important PC we don't know about much offline? Enzeru 11:28, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I highly doubt he is, since he rules both Net Slum AND Moon Tree, two almost antithetical groups, from the same PC, and Zelkova has never deceived or distorted the truth in ANY manner. Plus, everyone else has some confirmed detail of some sort, however sparse. AuraTwilight 16:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

I also think he might be Fumikazu Hayami, who had the Helba Key after she ditched the Slum.
 * Helba never ditched Net Slum, she just gave Kazu the Helba Key as a messenger boy because it was too dangerous for her to meet Shugo's party in person. He has no actual ties to Helba, probably only chosen because Shugo and Rena knew him personally and he was an honorary .hacker.--AuraTwilight 20:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Stupid, but...
The first time I fought Cubia in volume 3, I had Zelkova in my party with me. When he was knocked out, he said "I'm joining my Grandma across the River Styx!" Could this possibly give us some info as to whether or not he exists offline? If he's an AI, wouldn't it be a little odd for him to say something like that? --AzureJellybean 05:31, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not like he's really dying anyway, so it's an odd thing to say either way. Besides, Zefie has a dead grandmother. --AuraTwilight 21:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Hm, good point. Now that makes me wonder, could Zelkova have some sort of connection to Aura and Zefie? I'm not saying he IS Zefie, but...--AzureJellybean 01:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but more likely, other AI's caught on to the idea of having families and children. Or Zelkova's just making shit up to maintain a human persona. Or he's Helba's grandson IRL. DUN DUN DUN. --AuraTwilight 22:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If it helps, Melo Grunty also talks about a Grandma during the Guild Master event in Rebirth. "My grandma said that there's a palace for fishes at the bottom of the water. *mellow*" Vorbei 05:50, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Theories
Based off what I have heard, I have thought of three different theories on who Zelkova is.

1. Zelkova may be a one of the peacful parts of AIDA that weren't destroyed after the Rebirth. This can be said because like AIDA, Zelkova is extremely interested in humans, real life, the Avatars, and the net. His childish personality and intellgince may also be from AIDA.

2. Zelkova maybe an AI who mother is Zeife and grandmother Aura. This would explain his love for the world, his hacking skill, and the the quote "I'm joining my Grandma across the River Styx!" If it is correct, he may be refferring to how Aura now lives in the Sea of Data.

3. Zelkova maybe Helba's son. This would explain his hacking skills, his ownership of the Net Slum and why he refers to it as his hometown --PK10 20:00, 19 Decmeber 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but those are all really unlikely out of all the possible theories. 1 is just outright wrong, the AIDA aren't that evolved, and Zelkova was a Lost One for a short period. If he were an AIDA, he wouldn't have human form, he'd be a part of their hive mind, and he wouldn't be a resident of Net Slum. None of the data fits. ALL artificial intelligences are interested in humans, that's kind've the point.

Two is also baseless. Zefie was still a child when she left, and she was never designed to evolve enough to become a mother. If he had an AI grandmother, it'd probably be Morganna, who is actually dead, instead of Aura, who's merely asleep. Furthermore, he's not dying from 0 HP. He was probably cracking a joke that didn't have any deeper meaning. As for Three, Helba herself never treated herself as a resident of Net Slum, that was something reserved for the AI's that lived there. AuraTwilight 08:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't support the AIDA or Zefie theories, but AIDA is shown to be evolved enough and there to be more than a single "AIDA mind" in .hack//G.U. Returner. And as for the Zefie theory, Morganna and certain vagrant AI's refute that in the fact that they go outside their intended limits and purposes. Us2rugrats 22:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

zelkova king of dark
think about it zelkova and gabi meet to fight cubia just like the epitath

Another Theory. Zelkova - Helba

 * The Third theory is probably one of the more accepted theories - not to drag up something that doesn't need confirmation, but theory crafting for series like this is one of my past times (before I continue). However, I tend to disagree with your notion that Helba never treated herself as a resident of Net Slum, it's often implied she views herself as a resident of Net Slum, and in Canon is often considered it's defacto ruler - mostly because she's one of the few people who could access it before it was turned into a Root Town. Now then, Zelkova being Helba is actually fairly likely, I read above that someone believed that his and her persona were completely opposite of each other. Helba is known to withhold information, but not often outright lie, she serves as a very constant character through .hack//SIGN, and Project.hack// Considering the Time-skip between the end of Quarantine and the beginning of R:2 and subsequently Roots and GU, I think it's quite possible that Helba and Zelkova could be the same person.




 * Another interesting thing i'd like to point out, in support of my theory, and the others mentioned here is the Charisma exhibited by Zelkova. It's very similar to Helba's. What sort of person would be able to command such respect from people who've never met them, and only heard rumors about them, and what are the odds that two different people would have that kind of Charisma? If the Response to Zelkova's Mass Email had been but a few select people, that'd have been one thing, but people like Gabi, and Guild Kestrel, who are in essence Diametrically opposed to Moon Tree answered Zelkova's Call. The attitude Wiseman/Yata shows to Zelkova after entering Netslum Tartarus for the first time post Haseo's transformation into Xth Form (Modified by none other than Zelkova), has me somewhat leaning towards this theory. He doesn't outright question Zelkova about it, which leads me to believe that Zelkova may indeed be Helba, and seeing as Helba was a Source of Information for Wiseman back during the .hacker days, that's the only reason I could really imagine him not questioning the issue.




 * Touching on the Charisma of Helba in relation to Zelkova. It takes a certain amount of such traits to actually be able to give instructions to people and have them follow them with little to no questioning. Helba does this numerous times. While Tokuoka and the girls from Liminality proceed to question a bit, they still in the end proceed with the plan as set out by Helba - even if it has possibly lethal side effects on a Grand Scale. Lios is the same way during the course of the games, following Wiseman and Helba's plans to replace the servers during the final battle with Corbenik - regardless of the risk. Lest we forget the final battle in .hack//SIGN where Helba leads the heroes against Morganna Mode Gone - Again they question but still proceed onward - undaunted with Helba's plan. Maybe this is all one big coincidence, and mayhaps my theory is completely flawed, but putting together this case, with the evidence seems to make more sense. I'm not saying this is Word of God - Contrary to the case or not. Ironically it could make the case for Zelkova being a Relative of Helba's - but the skill displayed in editting Haseo's PC Data to grant him the Xth form, WHILE repairing him seems like something only Helba would do in an extreme situation, and Zelkova could do it, and again only did it in an extreme situation.




 * Once Again - I am not saying my theory is Canonically correct, it could merely be set aside as an extreme theory to a case long since forgotten. I would hope we might all come to an agreement on a Theory with some form of acknowledgement from the authors of the stories. Thanks for your time.Raile 05:53, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

A little something reguarding Zelkova/Helba
Both Zelkova and Helba have the same response when given a low rarity item: "What a cute gift."

64.136.27.228 01:25, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Zelkova is a beast race?
I'm currently replaying Rebirth. In the Apkullu thread "The Seven counsel is cool!" Kuma Chan posts:

"But I might have a soft spot for a cute boy like Zelkova too. I'd just want to hug him and squeeze him til his little eyes popped. Oh, I also like the wild feeling you get from Beastmen." (exceprt)

The only other character mentioned in the post is Sakaki, who is not a beastman. This seems to imply that Zelkova is a beast race character. Is there any source that actually names him as human? I forget. Not sure if this is trivia or canon. 64.39.144.90 04:29, December 9, 2016 (UTC)